Subjects: Informal votes
E&OE
STARTS 2.41pm
ENDS 2.49pm
MICHAEL MCLAREN
So, what are the factors underpinning this? Is it a lack of education? Lack of understanding of basic civics? Can’t people put one to seven in sequential order? Or are people deliberately spoiling the ballot because they say pox on all your houses? I guess we’ll never really know. It’s going to be a mix of all of the above and then some additional. But I thought we’d have a chat to Michael McCormack. He’s written about all of this today and I think he’s right to lament this. He’s on the line, thank you for your time, Michael, appreciate it.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
It that’s a pleasure, Michael, no drama at all.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
You sort of evoked the War Memorial in your piece, there’s a lot of people who aren’t here, who gave their life for democracy, and we’ve got a lot of people who, clearly, on Election Day exercise their democratic right by just going and spoiling the ballot and you’ve lamented. Is it a protest, a call action? Call it what you want.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, a scrutineer has told me that there were derogatory remarks and interesting pictures written on and drawn on ballot papers and some ballot papers had nothing at all, and they were just shoved inside the box. And for those people who’ve done that, they have no cause to complain then about where the country heads. They have wasted their ballot, they have wasted their free and democratic right to cast their opinion on what candidate should receive their vote. And like I said yesterday, 103,000 names on those Rolls of Honour at the Australian War Memorial, of servicemen and women who have gone and fought and died so that we could have a fair and free and democratic vote. I just think it’s such a shame. I went to The Riverina Anglican College yesterday to talk to the Year 6 children about, well on Monday actually, about democracy and civics, and you know, they knew so much about the different levels of government. And I do have to say, Milton Dick, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, has gone out of his way and made it one of his objectives to ensure that there is better education of the Parliamentary system and I commend him for that, I do. I think it’s really important that we do teach, not just primary school, but secondary school children as well, the value of their vote and how it all works, because when you look at the Riverina vote, 11,279 which equates to 10.28 per cent of the vote, had the informal’s being a candidate, would have run third.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, that’s right, and in a number of seats they would run second. Just on what you’re saying, I’ll play devil’s advocate, I think if people … we’ve got the right to vote, that’s very important and powerful thing, a lot of people around the world don’t and they come here to live here because we do. But you know the argument, I guess the counterfactual, would be Michael, if it weren’t compulsory voting these people just stay at home. I mean, they might say, look, I don’t like Michael McCormick and I don’t like all the others.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Some political party or some political candidate would probably buy them off to go and vote. I mean, I don’t agree with the American system where I think apathy then rules because I’ll just leave it to somebody else to vote. No, I think compulsory voting is right and appropriate, I do, but I think people shouldn’t waste their votes. People complain about the inconvenience of having to go and vote, I mean, it’s so convenient, you’ve now got two weeks of pre-poll, I think that’s probably a week too long to be perfectly honest. I mean, once upon a time, the democracy sausage sizzle was done by the local schools, their biggest fund-raiser of the year. Well, hardly any of the polling booths in the Riverina actually had a sausage sizzle, and I think that’s a great shame because so many people already pre-polled. I think there should be a week of pre-polling just for those people who have to go away and can’t make it on Election Day. And I think Election Day, quite frankly, should be the way it used to be.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Look, I don’t disagree. OK, now I’ll just raise this because a lot of people get chicken little on these issues, but I mean, your area’s pretty Anglo-centric …
MICHAEL McCORMACK
See that’s where you’re wrong. It’s very multicultural. We’ve got the second highest Yazidi population in Australia, outside of Syria and Iraq. No, no, it’s very, very multicultural. And, I think, Griffith is only 200 kilometres away, I think that’s the cradle of multiculturalism in Australia. I mean, we’ve got a lot of people from the Snowy Hydro, the migrants who came over and built that great piece of infrastructure in the ’50’s and we’ve still got a lot of Greeks and Italians, and but even these days we’ve got a lot of Yazidi’s and South Sudanese people, and they contribute fantastically. I mean, we’ve got a Tibetan restaurant in Wagga Wagga, come down and check it out, it’s fantastic.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Alright, I’ll take all that back. But the point I wanted to raise is, you go to some places in Western Sydney, which I certainly know better than, your neck of the woods, and the informal vote was very, very high. Now, I mean, 16.9% Fowler 14%, there’s another one, I think might have been Watson in the sixteens. I mean there’s no doubt an issue here somewhere in those numbers with people not understanding, even though it’s explained to them, the process.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, a lot of candidates simply put one on their ballot paper and you know they emphasised to just vote one for whatever particular candidate. In a Federal Election you have to fill out every square, you have to number every box on the House of Representatives ballot paper to make your vote count. Now when you’ve got a State Election you just have to put a one and your vote counts or a Local Government Election and you only have to put a few numbers depending on how many candidates there are, your vote counts. I think there should be some sort of uniformity. I’m not saying they put 1 and they don’t care …
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, this is my point. Yeah, I agree. This is this is my point because we’ve got a lot of different systems and so people go to vote but if it’s a State, it’s different, the Federal is different, Local Council … I mean, surely, the optimal outcome would be, if someone puts a one for, Michael McCormack, we get a sense they want to vote for you and The Nationals, if they didn’t fill out the other five or six boxes, why should that vote not effectively count and be put in the bin as an informal. I mean, you know, we’ve got to use some discretion and sense, I mean, wouldn’t it be sensible to say one’s enough?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, that’s the way the voting system is and that’s the way the voting system has been and to change it would help but that’s a lot of rigmarole. And let me tell you, you know, there’s a bit of an aversion these days towards a referendum and to change and those sorts of things, given the result of the Voice. But look, it’s not that hard to fill out and number every box, it really isn’t.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, I agree. You and I agree. But a lot of people obviously do find it very difficult.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Better education, it starts in schools. I’m glad that we are making an effort through the Speaker to do just that. I think people should exercise their vote. The concern I had and why I raised this was the fact that many people at the at the pre-poll and on Election Day had walk past and just made the comment that they were just going to sign off their name and weren’t going to worry too much about putting a number in any box. And I think that is a great shame.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, it is, I guess they say you don’t know what you got until it’s gone, right, and we’re very fortunate that we’ve got our democracy and, ok, there’s the obligation to at least get your name ticked off. But look, personally, I don’t think it’s too much of an ask to then go and put 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
And the fines are different, I think fines, I might be wrong here and I stand corrected, but I think the fine for not voting in a Federal Election is far less than not voting in a Local or State Election. Which again …
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, that’s because you raised 80% of the taxes, right, so you don’t need the money. This is their stamp duty, right?
MICHAEL McCORMACK
You’re funny.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Well, it’s true, but anyway.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Well, more money goes to the State Election, I’d never get between a Premier and a bucket of money.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Oh no, not without a mouth guard and headgear and some heavies to protect you. Alright, well, let’s see what people make of it. I appreciate your time. Congratulations on re-election. Thank you, Michael.
MICHAEL McCORMACK
Thank you very much.
MICHAEL MCLAREN
Michael McCormack there, the Federal Member for Riverina.