Have Your Say

TRANSCRIPT: DOORSTOP OUTSIDE SKY STUDIO WEDNESDAY, 23 July 2025

23 July 2025

Subjects: Net zero

E&OE

STARTS 12.16pm

Ends 12.28pm

 

INTERVIEWER

If the Liberals don’t back net zero, would you be prepared to walk away from the coalition?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

The coalition is strongest when we’re together, when we’re united. Of course, you’re not going to be able to be united on every single issue, there’s been issues in the past where The Nationals have gone one way and the Liberals, very much, had their own view, which is different and separate to that of The Nationals. But look, I was the one who got, primarily, the Coalition back together after that unfortunate eight-day hiatus, which I thought was unnecessary, terrible timing. I was the one who worked and negotiated to get the Coalition back here. I am a Coalitionist, I am first and foremost. But also, first and foremost, I’m the Member for Riverina, and when I see my electorate being just littered with proposals to have 260-metre wind towers in Binalong, Bowning, I mean you look at the solar factory proposals right across the electorate, Maxwell Mangoplah. It’s everywhere. The Government might have a mandate to govern, but don’t have a mandate to ruin my electorate or regional Australia, and I’ll be fighting hard to make sure that this mad rush to renewables does not involve ruining the lives and livelihoods of the people I represent. That why …

 

INTERVIEWER

… How would scrapping … How would scrapping net zero lead to those proposals …?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it would stop this mad rush to renewables. So, Chris Bowen just thinks that he can live in his little ivory tower in Sydney and not worry how we’re going to get to net zero, how we’re going to achieve that. But in the meantime, we’ve got the Emma Webbs of the world, the Cheryl O’Donnells in Crookwell, who are suffering because there are proposals, there are people who are coming in, they’re buying up leasing rights with the neighbours, they are, they are dividing families, they are ruining friendships that have been going not for years, but for generations, by dividing and conquering, that’s what they’re doing. That’s what these shysters doing, they work often for international companies, they don’t care, they don’t care about the lives and livelihoods of regional Australia. But you know what I do and Wind Prospect, quite frankly, can go to Hell.

 

INTERVIEWER

Do you think David Littleproud should be the Leader or Barnaby?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, David Littleproud is the Leader, and I support him. Barnaby has, obviously, a Private Member’s Bill up and I support that. But when you are in The Nationals and you’ve just gone to the New South Wales Nationals’ Conference at Coffs Harbour where they voted to get rid of net zero, when the Country Liberal Party in the Northern Territory has done the same, when your branch meetings are all voting to get rid of net zero because of the ruination that it’s doing to our idyllic, peaceful towns, or what once were, you have to act. If you then snub all those people you’re not doing your job well …

 

INTERVIEWER

My question was about the leadership …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

… I’ve given you the answer. David Littleproud is the Leader and I support him.

 

INTERVIEWER

Would you ever challenge him? Is that …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

… Well, I mean, I’m not going rule my name out of ever, ever leading the National Party again, but I’m not planning on making a, mounting a challenge any time soon. So, I just want to put that on the record. I was asked in recent times would I ever not contest the leadership again, well, I’m not gonna agree to that. But David’s the Leader. I support him. I voted for him in the recent leadership ballot. David knows that I support him.

 

INTERVIEWER

Michael, in your response to your first question, you said that you, or you criticised the timing of the original Coalition split, saying that that wasn’t a good option. Aren’t you doing Sussan Ley a big disservice today? It’s her first time as Opposition Leader in Question Time, and yet you’re giving this, a political gift or fodder to Labor, with these questions over net zero.

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I’m sticking up for my community. It’s just as Sussan would, no doubt, stick up for her communities if there are issues in Farrer, and there no doubt are. But look, Sussan knows I support her, I mean I very much support her. I think she’s going to do a great job as the Leader. Today’s her first Question Time, I’m got asked the questions yesterday, as a politician, and you’re journalists, if you ask me questions, I’ll answer them on the day you asked them. I won’t just kick it into the Never Never, I wasn’t going to just say “oh no, I’m not answering that question because it’s first Question Time tomorrow.

 

JULIA BRADLEY

Michael, would you make a better Leader of The Nationals than David Littleproud/

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, you can judge that.

 

JULIA BRADLEY

I want you to judge that. Do you think you would make a better Leader?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I like to think I achieved a lot as the Leader of the National Party.

 

JULIA BRADLEY

Do you think you’d be better placed that leadership position?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Look, David’s the Leader. David’s the Leader. It’s a good try, Julia, David is the Leader and I support him.

 

INTERVIEWER

Going back to your first answer, you said something that might seem contradictory, that you’re first and foremost a Coalitionist but also first and foremost the Member for Riverina. What if those two things are contradictory? What if …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

… Riverina comes first.

 

INTERVIEWER

And what if the Coalition, what if the what if the Liberals …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

In this case, Riverina always comes first.

 

 

INTERVIEWER

But what if the Liberals can’t win enough urban seats without net zero to make the …

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we can’t be Labor-lite. I’ll tell you one thing that hasn’t been discussed a lot this morning in all of the interviews, I haven’t heard the word affordable and at the moment power is unaffordable for many and even in the city areas, we’ve a lot of pensioners, a lot of poor people who simply can’t afford to warm their houses, and it’s a pretty cold winter. And so, I’d like to think by the time the next election comes around, people are, quite frankly, looking for an alternative and very much so, I think the Coalition will be the alternative.

 

INTERVIEWER

Do you support the general consensus about the science of climate change in terms of the impact it will have on the environment over the coming decades, and if net zero is not the answer how should Australia deal with that transition or deal with the consequences of …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

We’ve got to do everything we can to lower emissions, yes, but it isn’t going to be at the expense of being able to produce things, to be able to manufacture, to have farming. I don’t want to see our national stock, the national herd reduced because some economist thinks that we’ve got to slaughter cattle like they, you know, were (considering) slaughtering animals in Ireland to lower their emissions, I mean, and that that was apparently happening over there. They were reducing their national herd so they could lower emissions. I just think that’s madness, we’ve got to be able to make sure we’re able to produce. I mean the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, is having a productivity forum and energy needs to be a big part of that. Energy is the economy, and we need to be able to be economically strong. We need to be, you know, being economically strong means to have good national security. Yes, the climate is important, absolutely, but we also need to look after our farmers, and we also need to look after people’s livelihoods. It shouldn’t be. The people at Binalong and Bowning, their land values reducing by upwards of 30 per cent simply because some Melbourne-based company wants to put 90 towers that are taller than the Crown Casino at Barangaroo are right in their backyards, 90 of them, I mean go think about that. It’s nearly as tall as the Eiffel Tower, you know, imagine having 90 of those looking at your back window and seeing that and as Cheryl O’Donnell quite correctly described at a recent Crookwell forum, you know, this reverberating noise is just doing her head in. I mean, imagine all of you people having that to wake up to, but not only that, trying to get to sleep to every night. It’s not fair. It’s not right.

 

 

 

INTERVIEWER

Do you think yourself and Barnaby coming out criticising the Leader and airing dirty laundry …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I didn’t. I didn’t criticise the Leader.

 

INTERVIEWER

… Barnaby’s criticised the Leader and you have not ruled out a leadership so … sorry by airing speculation about it, and by airing grievances in public, both yourself and Barnaby. Do you think that this has been like white-anting David Littleproud’s leadership?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No, no, no, no. No, you isolate my comments in the article in The Australian today, I stand by everything I said. I didn’t white ant, I didn’t erode David Littleproud’s credibility. I was disappointed with the timing of the split, I thought it was very unfortunate with Sussan’s mother, obviously, at the end of her life, and then sadly passing away, I thought Sussan should have had that time to spend with her Mum. You only get those precious moments once, and I thought that was very unfortunate, it could have waited until the next week, I mean, we had weeks, if not months, to determine that. But I haven’t eroded David Littleproud’s leadership at all.

 

INTERVIEWER

Can I just clarify on that? Some MPs behind the scene, saying the timeline was actually on the Liberals, where David Littleproud was willing to give them time, but they wanted to negotiate an agreement. So are you …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

… I was also in the National Party meeting …

 

INTERVIEWER

… Are you disagreeing with that?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I was also in the National Party meeting where people wanted to have it done and done now, and I’m not talking out of school, and talking, you know, fessing up with what went on in the National Party room, and it was already leaked to the media exactly what I said and I was quite prepared to toe the line but …

 

INTERVIEWER

No, no, sorry, the negotiations when you said it was disrespectful to go to Sussan at that time.

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, we didn’t need to do it that week. I don’t believe we needed to do it that week.

 

INTERVIEWER

But people are saying that David agreed it didn’t have to be done that week, but the Liberals were pushing for an answer, so it was their side that was pushing for an answer.

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I also watched Sussan Ley on 60 Minutes on Sunday and she, herself, admitted that it was unfortunate that she’d have that time with her mother. So, it’s he said, she said. Who knows? Who knows? I just think when your when your Mum’s dying, you need to be with your Mum. Sorry, I mean, politics is important, but family is way, way more important than anything we ever discuss in this place.

 

INTERVIEWER

Michael in 2022, a lot of Liberals that lost to teals said it wasn’t just the Coalition’s climate policy that was damaging, but also Barnaby Joyce was particularly toxic. Do you fear if you get your way, you are locking the Coalition out from all those urban seats for good?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

No.

 

INTERVIEWER

Why not?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, I just don’t. Look, and I think one of the unfortunate things was Barnaby wasn’t able to speak freely at the last election campaign. I think we probably had too tight a reins Shadow Ministers and former Deputy Prime Ministers, and I think we should have been able to speak a little bit freer. I mean, Barnaby is his own person, good luck trying to silence him. Trust me, I know. Anyway. Your question, I will take it, umbrage and Dan Tehan this morning describing us as steers. We’re not steers, we’re, you know, steers have been emasculated but certainly haven’t been, we’re virile and ready to go as far as politics is concerned …

 

JULIA BRADLEY

… Do you …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

… Yes, Julia, I will take your question. That was a bit awkward, wasn’t it? You know what I mean!

 

JULIA BRADLEY

Do you acknowledge that the mixed messaging around energy is going to confuse voters?

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

Well, it should be about affordability. I mean, look …

 

INTERVIEWER

… But in terms of the point that’s been made here, you …

 

MICHAEL McCORMACK

I want to win as many metropolitan seats as possible. And it wasn’t just energy, it wasn’t just net zero. There was a whole raft of things that we that we did right, but also many, many things we did wrong at the last election. And look, the Leader, Sussan Ley, the Liberal Leader, is right, she said “we were smashed in the last election”. And we can’t get bitter, we’ve got to get better. And we’ve got a process in place, so Matt Canavan’s, part of that, Dan Tehan, they’re going to go and review that energy situation, we need to get energy prices down, we need to make sure that as a nation, that we can manufacture things here. Labor talks about it, but what do they actually do? They talk about building 1.2 million homes, I mean, I’ll have my bronze in Baylis Street Wagga Wagga if they can produce1.2 million homes. I mean, seriously, it ain’t gonna happen with the energy prices, with the construction industry going belly up, I mean, we’ve got so many small businesses going to the wall and so many construction industries are just struggling because they just simply either can’t find workers, they can’t pay their power bills, they can’t find the wood, the tin, everything else to build the homes. The construction industry is in free fall. It’s a really worrying situation. We’ve got Labor proposing to build 1.2 million homes and at the same time they’re getting in, you know, half a million people year after, year after, year and they’re getting people in way beyond our capacity to house them.

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